Landscaping: Help with new raised bed

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Zarebeth Circle Pines, MN (Zone 4b) May 13, 2007 9:03 PM	Sorry if this has been addressed before... I just had a new deck put in, and around the deck I put a wall about a foot high to create a raised bed. DBF is currently filling my new garden with nice topsoil. What I want to do is use soaker hoses, weed barrier and mulch around perennials and shrubs. So what I was wondering is what would be the best way to accomplish this? I am thinking the hot setup will be to put down the weed barrier first, then the hoses, and cover them with mulch, but since this bed will not be disturbed for several years (hopefully) I want to get it right the first time so I am asking the experts!
ecrane3 Dublin, CA (Zone 9a) May 13, 2007 10:30 PM	I would leave out the weed barrier, there's been discussion of this before about what the effect is of the weed barrier on the underlying soil, I don't know if it's 100% for sure that it's bad for the soil underneath, but why take a chance. The mulch will do almost as good a job keeping the weeds out without the weed barrier. In year 1, you might notice a difference between a bed with the weed fabric and a bed with just mulch, but over time dirt lands on top of the barrier and then the weeds can grow anyway, so in years 2 and beyond I doubt if you'll notice much difference from having weed barrier, and your soil underneath will probably be happier without it. If you do use the weed barrier though, that is the correct order to put things down.
PrairieGirlZ5 Thornton, IL May 13, 2007 10:47 PM	I think you're onto something ecrane. It's not so much that it's bad for the soil (since it's a raised bed anyway), but that they're ineffective, and hard to plant in. You will change your mind, and add or subtract plants as things grow and thrive, or unfortunately, die. There is another advantage with just laying the soaker hoses in mulch. They will deeply water the soil, and gravity will pull every drop down into the hard earth below. The more organic material you add, (mulch is organic), the more decomposition you will have. It is this breakdown of the organic material that "feeds" the soil, and thereby, the plants. Good call on the soaker hoses zarebeth! Lightly hand-watering does more harm than not watering at all. (I should have that pasted to my forehead, I find watering can be relaxing LOL). It's esp tempting when I'm in the garden in the morning.
ecrane3 Dublin, CA (Zone 9a) May 13, 2007 10:51 PM	There was a thread around that was saying that the weed fabric was actually bad for the soil, I think that even though it's porous the water and air don't get through quite the way they do naturally and it was bad for the microbes in the soil or something like that. I wish I could remember which forum it was in, I'd try to dig it back up again.
PrairieGirlZ5 Thornton, IL May 14, 2007 10:38 AM	Oh that's true too, but since Zarebeth is making a raised bed, I figured the soil underneath wasn't very good anyway. Does that make sense? If you try to block the growth of weeds by depriving them of water and light, you could in theory kill the microbes in the soil as well, but the temperature would have to reach 160° F for 30 minutes under moist conditions in order to pasteurize it.
ecrane3 Dublin, CA (Zone 9a) May 14, 2007 10:29 PM	I assumed she was putting the weed barrier on top of the new good soil in the raised bed, that's why I wasn't sure it was a good idea. Buried way on the bottom between the old bad soil and the new soil for the raised bed it won't do any harm (but won't do any good either since there's plenty of soil above it then for the weeds to grow in.) I wish I could remember where that thread was, I can't remember very well what the reasons were that people said it was bad, all I remember is after following that thread I'll never use weed barrier in garden beds again.
simmysam3 May 15, 2007 1:11 AM	I have seen newspaper used as weed barrier. Anyone had experience with that. I hate standard barriers because they are a mess to deal with after a year.
WeeNel Ayrshire Scotland (United Kingdom) May 16, 2007 7:45 PM	Hi I use weed barier here in my garden in Scotland, it is a woven fabric that lets water through, I can assure you, it has done no harm to my soil, been down for 10 years, when I want to plant, I just cut a cross with knife, tuck it under, lift out the soil for the hole, add my fertiliser and compost, put the plant in, replace some of the soil mixed with compost, replace the woodchip mulch and it is perfectly fine, I would add the soaker hose UNDER the weed barrier as it stops the water evaporation, when I want to feed the plants, I either use a liquid feed or scarape away the mulch, I am talking plants like Rhododendrons, azleas, ect, not perenniels or things like that, obviously weed barrier is no good in that situation, yes I do get the weeds germinating in the mulch, BUT, they dont get the roots down anywhere as fast as they do on my bare soil, I have a huge garden with huge beds, so believe me, I could not garden in that size without the weed barrier, dont use it in my herbaceous borders or in the veg garden, but, in the right place it is a god send for me, I could not afford to employ a gardener, without the weed fabric, I would need one or no large beds, anyway, you would soon know IF your plants were unhappy and take it up, dont think Zarabeth is talking carpeting the White House with the weed barrier, she is talking about a raised bed. I would give it a go, if not happy, then scarape off the mulch, lift the weed barrier and replace your mulch. good luck whatever you choose to do. WeeNel.
ecrane3 Dublin, CA (Zone 9a) May 16, 2007 9:22 PM	Here's the thread that I was mentioning earlier about why weed barrier may not be such a good thing. Personally I don't use it anymore except underneath paths and things, never where I'm going to be putting plants. [HYPERLINK@davesgarden.com]
Zarebeth Circle Pines, MN (Zone 4b) May 17, 2007 11:11 AM	Wow - thanks for the thread. There is no way I will use that fabric now, and the newspaper idea has me hooked! Wanted to go out and plant, but I am stuck in bed (on couch?) with a cold. Scattered storms this weekend, my favorite kind of planting weather so I guess I will just have to hold off.
grasshopdesign May 17, 2007 10:39 PM	You can ue weed barrier if you want, but it becomes a hassel if you are going to plant this bed again (ie. annuals). Depending on what type of mulch you use, weeds can germinate just as easy in it as they can the soil. So unless thise bed is bordering a fierce bermuda lawn i would leave the geotx alone. It also gets all torn and can become ratty looking if not kept in check......hmmm kind of like weeds. anyway, i would definitely look into drip irrigation. you can set a system up straight out of your outside spigot. This is a water saving option that is a lot easier to set up than you think. So i would talk to your local irrigation place, see what they have in the drip area, and go from there. Once you get what you need you can dig your trenches, set your pipes and heads, and cover the thing with mulch. If you do not want to go with the drip system then your innitial plan should work, but your soaker is almost always going to be peeking through the mulch at some point (this does not mean you make your mulch 6" thick). No matter what you decided definitely do not put your soaker hose under the fabric. Hope this was some help Grasshopper Design grasshopdesign.com

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