Landscaping: Any suggestions for a new gardener?

Replies: 24 Views: 620

Author	Comment
missysgarden Scappoose, OR (Zone 7b) July 29, 2007 2:02 AM	My husband and I have purchased an older home (1955) on a 1/2 acre lot in Oregon. We are newbies to gardening but I have decided to try my hand at a cottage style garden (a little adventurous I know). We are starting to work on the front yard right now (Please try to ignore the lawn that's a whole other topic lol ! We've extended our beds,beds, and amended the soil, and have added barkdust. I'm sure summer is the worst time to start planting, but I couldn't resist the price on some of my favorites : A hydrangea tree, phlox, echinacea, and phlox. I've attached a picture of the new extended beds, but I'll have to put up a pic after I planted. Here is my problem: I like tall plants. So I put them in and it just seems like I need some type of filler? Any recommendations? I would prefer perennials, that had some type of evergreen folliage ,but I'm open to all suggestions. View Larger
Len123 Adrian, MO (Zone 6a) July 29, 2007 2:16 AM	just be carefull you don't 'overfill' as the plants will spread and fill in, in time. i think an own -root rose bush would look nice, perhaps rogue valley roses dot com, near medford , OR.
Smokey_SC Piedmont, SC (Zone 7b) July 29, 2007 5:04 PM	Can you take a pic a little closer? Is that a rock wall in th background? How much sun? Does the part that is shaded get sun?
missysgarden Scappoose, OR (Zone 7b) July 29, 2007 9:13 PM	Len123, thanks for your response. I really don't know much about planting/pruning roses so I've stayed away from them. I'm definately going to read up on them though (not much of a cottage garden without roses lol). SmokeySC , yes it's a rock planter that's original to the house. The front of my home faces west, so it gets full afternoon sun. The planting area I'm concerned about ( in the circle) is definately full sun. back further towards the flower bed it mostly get's shade except for late in the afternoon. I've attached a current pic so you can see more of my "problem" with needing "fillers". thanks for all the help View Larger
calumetman Chicago, IL July 30, 2007 1:27 PM	Welcome to the wonderful, sometimes obsessive, world of gardening. This is in my opinion the true "oldest profession," as opposed to that more lurid exercise that gets the credit. Here are a few valuable foundation tips I have to help you in your design strategies as your knowledge and your garden matures. 1. Think Fibonacci Sequence: 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13. Starting with 1 and 1, then each succeeding term the sum of the two immediately preceeding. Ergo, 1+2= 3, 2+3=5, 3+5=8 etc.. This is the best system to use in planting flats whether in rows or in a grid. Never plant 1 of this here and 3 there or your garden will be a confused, disjointed jumble that'll only gets more unattractive as your plants mature. 2. Landscape materials are the bones of a garden including: Trees, shrubs, ornamental grasses, vines and groundcovers. The rest are fillers that accentuate the landscape and can be interchangable if you use annuals, but the bones are in place year round. Many provide winter interest as your perennials sleep. 3. Beds are centralized (satellite) plots, while Borders are against structures like fences or walls. Beds need (a) foundation plant(s) or landscaping, be it shrubs, small trees, or some garden structure (hardscape) like a bird bath or birdhouse on a pole. This will anchor the surrounding materials. You may anchor "the back of the border" with a fence row of tall shrubs, or sturdy tall plants. Each consecutive layer toward the front of borders or towards the edge of beds should be shorter than the last, lending a tiered effect, finished off with some groundcover or hardscape edging like bricks. The layered effect is done with at least three tiers. This means you benefit from learning (memorizing) as much as possible about each plant you use. Become intimate. Example: A simple planting - Fenced border: 1 Miscanthus, 2 Blackeyed Susan, 3 moonbeam coreopsis, W Brick edging. Or a more comprehensive planting - Bed: 1 Hydranga Tree understoried with Henry's Garnet, 2 Echinacea, 2 Blackeyeed Susan, 3 medium height phlox, 3 Bronze Medallion Sedum, 5 Fire N' Ice hostas, 5 Sweet Woodruff, 8 Snow-In-Summer interrupted with Pachysandra. 4. Use a color wheel. Planting red's next to blues can be too drastic a contrast. Believe me, unless you just have to do it, keeping cool and warm color palettes separate will make your garden designs standout, even in the more relaxed Cottage Style you're choosing to use. 5. Think big picture. Gardening is progressive and relatively slow. The real pleasure is in the process. Gardeners are some of the most patient people around. My mind has broadened so much I'm alway looking forward to this, anticipating that. And I've learned that my gardens slow me down from the harried life of that non-gardening world and keep me transcendant. With stick-to-it-tiveness your knowledge will grow beyond what you ever thought possible. There is trial and error. This goes with the territory, but remain undaunted. You'll find your particular nitch before you know it, and be the one giving loads of advice to the next beginner.
WeeNel Ayrshire Scotland (United Kingdom) July 30, 2007 11:23 PM	Cant agree more with the advice from Calumetman above, your wish for an instant garden will end in tears as they say, there is no fast gardening ways as far as I am aware and I have been doing it for 40 odd years, what a garden is, a growing space, so the garden needs to grow along with you, what you have done so far is great, but do remember, you need to care for what you have already planted, so go slow, dont worry about bare soil, it is hot, dry and new to you, if you fill this bed with hundreds of plants, then how will you learn what is wrong if you have a problem, you wont be able to spot a problem, as you collect your plants, buy them in odd numbers 3-5-7 etc, plant them together in a group rather in single ones, it should tell you on the labels what spaces between plants, you can go a wee bit closer, but they also need room to spread, that way, you get to enjoy the flowers you wanted to grow instead of trying to find them in among loads of others, you dont really get evergreen perenials as such, if you want evergreen plants, you need to select some shrubs etc, as stated, these help to make the backbone of the flowerbeds, do remember your shrubs will be small when planted, so take note of there final hight when mature. to grow really tall plants at the back of the border, you need to think support, either low trellis, fence or garden canes or the whole lot will fall over and be out of sight, you need to feed the soil every year for perenials as there growth and flower season is short, so they use up a lot of energy therefore need feeding to help give them that, this really aint the best time to be planting Perenials as it is too dry and hot, so why dont you slow down, get a picture of your house, lay a sheet of tracing paper over it and with a pencil, sketck out the look and colour scheem you want, go to the librery/book store and look for some books on landscape/borders and these will have pictures and names of plants, so write them down if you like them, but remember, all the pictures you see will be of beds and borders that have matured after about 3/4 years, but it will give you ideas for the overall effect you want, they will tell you the conditions and soil the plants you like need, there is nothing worse than buying plants you like, costing a fortune, then find after one month, they cant grow in your area. the pictures in the books remember will be mass planting as I mentioned before, 3-5-7 etc, you wont get a display with an odd plant here and there. I am trying to tell you to be kind to yourself, your wallet and your garden by just doing it a bit at a time, that way you will not waist money on plants that die on you, you wont get disheartened and you will enjoy waiting, nurturing and planting knowing your doing it all the right way. so good luck and happy gardening, Rome was never built in a day as I said before, neither was a good garden. WeeNel.
calumetman Chicago, IL August 2, 2007 1:52 PM	Thanks WeeNel. Missy, I hope we aren't overwhelming you. It would probably be a good ideal to keep journals. One for your landscape/gardening progress and one for the tips you receive along the way. When you look back on thoses things you'll really get a sense of accomplishment that's highly self-motivating. Some constructive criticism. From observing your pic and plant selections, the western exposure may not be the best for the tree. Hydrangea usually prefer partial shade (northern or eastern exposure) so a better sun loving specimen may be in order. Albeit I don't know how strong the sun gets in Oregon in the summer months. The Phlox are of a tall variety (and the panicles look too much like the Hydrangea), and next year they're going to be even taller. Planted like they are is sort of hodge-podge and sure to make the border look spindly and unbalanced, all the white appearing rather monochromatic. Unless you plan on adding a tall stand of warm colored varieties I'd group them. because the stocks could break in the harsh winds of a Spring storm. Suggestion: Plant them grouped in front of the stone planter on either side of the tree. Don't plant anything directly under any tree for a few years at least. You want to give it time to get established, and not have to compete with other roots and vice versa. That way the Phlox will play off the spikes of the salvia (which will grow taller and fuller in the planter next year) and make a nice foil for whatever (shorter) plant grouping you put in front of them; like the fragrant pale purple Nicotiana, or perhaps Cleome. Maybe you should move the boxwood. The phlox blocks the box-wood from view sister. Suggestion: Boxwoods, while a good Cottage Garden choice, are very slow growing and used as primary hedge dividers for more formal planting schemes, like in grids or geometric shapes. They don't look well staggered, or against a fence or a wall and disappear behind tall plants. Try winding them as a small hedge along the front edge of the border just north of your stand of Dusty Millers. That way the deep green will make the silver pop as the edging transitions into the lanceolate leaf texture of the daylily Stella d'Oro. They will also give a natural container effect to the flowers (foxglove are they?) peeping up from behind. Suggestion: The Purple Coneflower can look good staggered between and behind the Stella d'Oro making a nice seasonal transition between the golden late Spring blooms and an Autumn show. Just row the seedheads in the fall and you'll see plenty coming up early next year. Those blue flowers which I can't place could look great staggered between the Echinacea and the Stella d'Oro. Blue and yellow although very contrasting are two primary colors that look stunning together in plant groupings. And the pale purple will better tie them together. That tall yellow plant in the pot would be a great accent just south of the Purple Coneflowers. The Gladeolus may need staking ( they usually do). You know you don't have to do anything I tell you. But i do hope you can glean something useful from my long list of suggestions.
missysgarden Scappoose, OR (Zone 7b) August 2, 2007 3:33 PM	Thanks for everyone's responses. Yes it is a bit overwhelming but I truly appreaciate the constructive criticism. I admit that I do feel a little peer pressure to keep up the Jones's yard. I live in a neighborhood of well established homes with well established yards, so it will be difficult to hold back from planting anything in the front for a few years. We are the 3rd owners of the home (the original owned it from 1955-1977). Originally it was a show garden I've been told (by the neighbors), the owner would graft new varieties and be in the yard from morning till night. Although I don't have those types of hours to spend in the yard, I do want to restore some justice to the yard since purchasing it from the second owner. Unfortunately the second owner from 1977-2004 removed over 80 % of the flowers and hedges so that he could just sit on his mower and mow the 1/2 acre property lol. As far as the phlox goes I have already learned my lesson about windstorms. We had one the other night and I lost 2 of my stalks, I think I will definately move it back towards the wall for some extra protection. The "Blueish" flower is actually a deep purple delphinium (I know it's similar to the shape of the phlox and hydrangea I am totally addicted to this style of flowers, as well as daylilies and irises too). I'm not sure what you are saying is the boxwood. I do have 2 mystery shrubs that are evergreen and grow little white flowers on them that smell really nice, I think they were supposed to be in shade/partial sun so that's why they are close to the wall (scared to move them closer to the sun lol) , but since we have extended our border they are a little awkward there and may need to be relocated elsewhere. I've attached a pic of them if anyone can identify them it would be super. Also what about relocating plants? Is it better to just wait for fall? View Larger
ecrane3 Dublin, CA (Zone 9a) August 2, 2007 3:56 PM	I would definitely wait until fall before moving anything, summer is the worst time of year to transplant things.
calumetman Chicago, IL August 2, 2007 10:47 PM	Sorry for the overload Missy, I'm just so excited for you. You've already got the bug, so you'll learn well enough as you move ahead. If you haven't already, order lots of plant catalogs. By the end of Winter when they start coming in the mail it'll be like Christmas. Gardening magazine subscriptions are great for ideals in groupings. Now... Your shrubs are some type of Japanese Waxleaf Privet. They should be planted away from the stone planter and given about a 2 ft. circumference. It would be best if they were left to stand alone in the midst of a bed of mulch relocated to a solitary locale like at the side of your house because they're not Cottage Garden material per se. They're stand alone specimens that want to get large and hedgy fast. The leaves may turn golden. They look most excellent in a shrub border with Barberry, Golden Euonymous and Potentilla and few to no flowers. Very French. I must inform you that your Delphiniums will likely get taller than you next year. They like to bow towards the sun as well, so they will need a back of the border site. Without shorter plants in front of them staking may be required. Here's a list of progressively shorter perennials ideal for the Cottage style: Campanula, Agastache, Cimicifuga, Heliopsis, Coreopsis, Liatris, Japanese Lily, Kniphofia, Gaura, Mollis, Sedum , tickseed Coreopsis, Chedder Pinks, Lamb's-ears Bishops Weed. Try a "Knock Out" rose where the Hydrangea tree is.
calumetman Chicago, IL August 2, 2007 10:55 PM	Oh, and a nice Juniper or Canadian Hemlock would also do well with the privet.
shune Seattle, WA (Zone 8a) August 4, 2007 12:17 AM	Calumetman, Is it possible that the shrubs are an upright variety of sarcacocca?
missysgarden Scappoose, OR (Zone 7b) August 4, 2007 12:18 AM	Since I do have a rock planter as the back of my border (as opposed to a foundation) do you think it would look "strange" to have the phlox and delphinium taller than the planter? Should I really select a plant that will only grow as tall as the planter?
shune Seattle, WA (Zone 8a) August 4, 2007 12:34 AM	[HYPERLINK@www.humeseeds.com] Missy, I hope it's ok to add my 2 cents. I am no expert, but I would identify those two shrubs before moving them in the fall. I have a couple of the creeping Sweet Box (Sarcococca) and the leaves look the same as your plants. Anyway, if it's Sweet Box, it shouldn't be planted in full sun. Ed Hume is a local (Seattle Area) TV and radio garden guy. Check out his info at the address I copied above.
WeeNel Ayrshire Scotland (United Kingdom) August 4, 2007 3:54 PM	Hi again Missy, just felt I should say that you should never worry about the neighbours plots, that is their space, yours, is yours, so unless you were causing weeds to blow all over their lot or you were in some way being invasive to them, forget them, their gardens are prob as mature as the one the previous owners of your had, before he ripped it all out, so you are starting from scratch, so what, ask your neighbours how long there yards have looked as they do and it will give you a true idea of the timescale you need to get your garden into the shape, colours and plants that you want, dont be put under presure to compete with a lot of gardens that were started 50, 60, or even 70 years ago, garden styles, methods and plant fashions have moved on a lot since then, even though you hanker after the cottage style, there are all different strains of these plants avaliable now where as in the time or your gardens beginnings, there were less, they were grown in among food crops to add some colour to the peas and cabbages that families had to grow for family consumsion, so please dont get driven into the trap that the neighbours plot is so good and mature, there gardens should look full grown and cared for, maybe even pay someone to do all the care, you just need to concentrate on all the ideas you have, get some gardening books from the librery to tide you over the winter, add to them from Christmas gifts and stuff so you learn what the plants need that you like, what will grow best beside what as these books are full of wonderful pictures of beds and borders, you can gain more confidence in your style of planting and the plants themself, so take your time, be adventurous and have fun, all plants can be moved at the right time or year, so as you go along and something is growing in the wrong spot or clashing in colour, just take a note and move it end of season or spring as it throws up new shoots, they are not made of cotton wool, so be kind to yourself also as this is supposed to be enjoyable and enrich your life and home. good luck, enjoy and forget about your planters for now, you will find a use for them as your garden matures more, you can always fill them with pots till that right idea comes along. WeeNel.
calumetman Chicago, IL August 4, 2007 8:18 PM	shune, yes, it is possible. And probable since I've never had or seen a Sarcococca, Sweet Box. I live in the Midwest were privets are common, but the Pacific Northwest climbs which I understand are closer to a Mediterranean type are basically unknown to me accept for what I read and research. Ditto to what WeeNel said. Note: Since you have plants taller than the stone planter, towering over the top can't be avoided, but definately won't look bad. Afterall, your wall will disappear eventually with the wide variety of flora and fauna that make up the Cottage Style. Shorter towards the front of the bed, like the Stella d'Oro and Dusty Miller you have there now is recommended. The Purple Cone flower won't get any taller than it is now and is an excellent spot to gauge similar heights along that line. Remember, if you leave the tree keep plants away from the base by 3 feet for now. Perhaps a small bench or a standing birdhouse instead? Maybe a sundial! And the occasional tower flower amid medium heights adds some dramatic effect. It's nice to include different leaf textures and flower shapes. Too many leaf or flower appearing the same can make a bed dull. Up close you may see the difference, but this is your "Curb Appeal" garden. Add some spikes, rosettes, broad leafs and different colored leaves, too.
calumetman Chicago, IL August 4, 2007 8:20 PM	A long range idea: During the era before Cottage Style gardens became the vogue the origins of these gardens were designed out of "necessity" for the household. The pioneer gardeners knew each plant intimately and used them regularly in home remedies. The use of the plants for medicinal purposes faded in time, but it would be cool to re-learn some of them. Especially since the perennials you're likely to use have their roots in folk medicine (pun intended). In fact there are very few plants here in the US - weeds included, that weren't used at one time as a medicine, including your beloved garden phlox. Remember these are only suggestions. You're doing EVERYTHING right if it's what you want to do. The garden is yours to create and enjoy. Believe me I've seen some things that were, like woa! But they seemed to work even though they were something I'd ever do myself. Or maybe I'll try that... [HYPERLINK@www.daisyfieldsoregon.com]
missysgarden Scappoose, OR (Zone 7b) August 7, 2007 11:33 AM	Thanks again for everyone's advice. Boy I can really see how addicting this can get. I've pretty much decided I need to stay out of the nurseries until fall lol. I have a plan for the fall. I'm definately moving my hydrangea tree, to the other side of the house. The phlox and delphinium are moving to the back, and I'm going to try my hand at a rose where the hydrangea tree is. I guess I better read up on roses and rose care. I also plan on planting some tulips and daffodils. There were 3 different people walking by (for their evening excercise) last night , while I was in the front pulling weeds, and they all stopped to compliment me on the yard. "saying it will look really nice" . So that was good. My husband has gotten me a few books (I think he's regretting it lol). The creative homeowner complete home landscaping book (I LOVE the pics, but they don't always identify the flowers, it excites me when I can identify them on my own though) and earlier this year he got me the sunset western garden book and a subscription to better homes and gardens. Again thanks for all the great advice, it really keeps me motivated, and thinking. You all will have a field day when I post pics of the North, East and South side of the house lol Missy
digatunnel Pasadena, CA (Zone 10a) August 10, 2007 12:20 AM	Hey Missy! I've learned so much from you asking advice! I have a very challenging yard and will post some questions soon. One thing I can say for sure, they're right about planting the same plant in groups. 3-5-7 really does work. Good luck, take your time and enjoy!
WeeNel Ayrshire Scotland (United Kingdom) August 11, 2007 9:45 PM	Cant wait to see the pictures of your new garden, and don't think your going to sit on a chair all winter reading books, that's when we gardeners do all the jobs/chores we ran out of time to do in the spring/summer He He He, send away for plant catalogues, seeds and go outdoors to add the compost/manure to the soil readying it for spring and seed planting time, early fall/spring is the best time for planting shrubs and trees as the soil is still warm below or in spring, just warming up and these type of plants don't suffer so much stress settling into their new environment, so you wont ever find nothing to do, it is also a good time to search the web for good suppliers of shrubs etc, making wish lists that never get finished nor completely fulfilled, but boy is it fun anyway, the winter also gives you time to set next seasons plans onto paper if your that way inclined (I'm a keep it in my head gardener rather than a list maker) but it gives you the opportunity to find out what you want to change and regroup for colour, texture etc, so happy gardening and best of luck, remember to keep us all updated on your progress. WeeNel.
Katye Sammamish, WA (Zone 7b) August 12, 2007 1:58 AM	Looks like Sarcococca humilis to me - tops out at about 18-24", and flowers February - March. There is another: Sarcococca ruscifolia, which is taller to about 4 - 5'. They can take a lot of sun, but do best in that application having other plants around it. If it's privet, it will be much taller. My Hydrangeas are in full sun, but with other plants around them. Same for Rhodies & Azaleas, except for a few that prefer shade. All do well & flower prolifically. Is Scappoose just north of Portland? Your area probably gets a bit more heat than the Seattle metro area, but many plants that are recommended for shade/partial shade in other regions of the country will perform quite well in full sun in the PNW. You will need to monitor soil moisture, though. Shune recommended Ed Hume's website - do check it out. Ed knows the PNW well, and addresses much of the climate factors unique to this area of the country. Also, read Ann Lovejoy for excellent info. Have your summer temperatures been on the cool side this season? Have been for us up by Seattle - still doing lots of landscaping/planting which is unusual for August. But because our temperatures are hovering in the low 70's, the plants are not stressed out. I think this is the only area of the country that is not baking! Waiting can try your patience, but if you aren't willing to put it off planting until mid - late September, remember to check those you do plant daily so they don't experience drying. One more thing: you have put your energy, time & money into creating something of beauty. Do the research necessary before you buy & site plants: it will save you time & headaches in the long run. This new area that you have worked in is in its juvenile stage, so be patient with it. You will have a much better idea of what else to add if you can wait until next spring. Annuals make good temporary fillers if you are in need of a flower fix. Concentrate on improving your soil & giving your plants optimal conditions so they can thrive. Come visit the PNW forum - lots of DG'ers in Oregon, along with great recommendations. Happy planting!
Scappoosegarden Scappoose, OR August 18, 2007 12:56 AM	Hey everyone, this is Missy from Missysgarden. For some reason I forgot my password and I can't get it because I have silly AOL, so I just signed up with a new name. Katye: Yes, Scappoose is approx. 30 miles north of portland. Things have definately been mild this summer, I don't think we are expected to get any more hot days around here. I definately have slowed down a little .. (although the bulbs are in at the nursery and I'm excited about that). I did put the Hydrangea Tree in the back on the East side of the houses, where it still receives some morning sun, but is shaded by the House in the afternoon, it is soooo much happier over there. I also moved the phlox, echinacea and delphinium to the back of my border. I've replaced the hydrangea tree with a knock out rose bush. We are going to be putting up a fence in our front yard (We would actually like to sit out in the evenings once and a while and enjoy the front, but I have a little boy and I always worry about him and our busy road). I'm super excited about the fence though, I think it will make a nice backdrop. I'll post some new pics as soon as I can, thanks again for everyone's advice, Happy Gardening!
Scappoosegarden Scappoose, OR August 11, 2008 4:26 PM	Hi, everyone. It's been a while since I've been on this site. I wanted to provide an update of my plantings. This was in spring. Missy View Larger
ecrane3 Dublin, CA (Zone 9a) August 11, 2008 10:15 PM	Very nice Missy--it's looking great!
want2bee cedar rapids, IA (Zone 5a) August 22, 2008 6:08 PM	what a bunch of great info... I too am facing some problems with starting over and wanting the instant color and the wow affect....thanks for posting this.

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